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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ahizpa / Arreba / Ahizpa-arreba<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Nik ez dakit zergatik deitzen diren Hermanitas edo Petites Sœurs, baina eurek bai, ziur, eta galdetu beharko litzaieke.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ahizpatasuna kongregazioko kideei ematen zaien izenetik badator, Ahizpa beharko luke, eta Ahizpatxo maitasunezko txikigarria onartuko luke; baina behartsuekiko
izan nahi luketen harremana irudikatzen badu, Ahizpa-arreba beharko luke, eta Ahizpa-arreba Txikiak egokiagoa izango litzateke, norbera baino gazteagoa den anaiari (arreba, ahizpa nahiz nebari) ez baitiogu anaiatxoa esaten, anaia txikia baino.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Txiroen Ahizpa-arreba Txikiak luzetxoa da bai, baina…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bestalde, Azkuek eta, Arreba soilik zergatik erabili zuten jakin nahi nuke, eta ez dut uste oso oker nabilenik garai hartako gizon zentrismoak zerikusia izango
zuela badiot. Hala ere, Txiroen Arrebatxoak tradiziokoa bada, aurrera.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Ales Bengoetxea [mailto:Ales_Bengoetxea@donostia.eus]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> osteguna, 2017.eko maiatzak 18 10:30<br>
<b>To:</b> ItzuL<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [itzul] Hermanitas de los pobres<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Nahasterik eragin badut, barka, ez da nire intentzioa izan ;-)</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Esan dudan bakarra da pertinentea iruditzen zitzaidala "behartsuen ahizpatxoak" edo beste era batean esan behar ote zaien zalantza egitea. Izan ere, behartsuak pertsonak direnez, bat edo batek
pentsa dezake haiekiko harremana adierazten duela terminoak, eta ez da hala, moja horiek bata bestearen ahizpak baitira, norbaitenak izatekotan.</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Bestalde, Karitatearen Ahizpak aipatu ditut (wikipedian esaten zaien moduan aipatu ere), garbi adierazteko izen abstraktu bat erabiliz gero, zaila dela halako zalantzarik izatea, eta ez inola ere
kongregazio horren beraren beste izen bat delakoan.</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Azkenik, uste dut bilatzen den soluzioa bilatzen dela, beti prekarioa izango dela:</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Behartsuen Senidetxoak edo Haurridetxoak esaten bazaie, ezkutatzen da generoa</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Pobreentzako Ahizpak izendapena egokia da, baina ez nago seguru kasu guztietan halako egokitzapenak egin daitezkeenik.</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Karitateko Ahizpak izendapena egokiagoa izan daiteke, baina orduan Gurutzeko Alabak edo Gurutzearen Alabak esan beharko diegu?</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Bukatzeko, ez daukat interes pertsonalik gai horretan, baina askotan baliatu izan dut Elizak erabiltzen duen "taxonomia" horretako azterketa morfologikoa, administrazioko lanpostuak eta atalak
euskaraz emateko lagungarria izan daitekeelako. Izan ere, non erabili dira aspalditik eta maiz izen abstraktuak euskaraz Elizaren testuetatik kanpo? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img width="102" height="74" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D2CFC2.B295C310" alt="Euskara Zerbitzua - Euskararen Hiria"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0A4D8E"><br>
Ales Bengoetxea Telletxea<br>
Euskara Zerbitzua - Hizkuntza normalizatzailea<br>
Tel: 943 483759<br>
</span><a href="http://www.donostiaeuskaraz.eus/"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0A4D8E">www.donostiaeuskaraz.eus</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<img border="0" width="16" height="16" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.gif@01D2CFC2.B295C310" alt="Inactivo - Ocultar detalles para "LARRINAGA LARRAZABAL, ASIER" ---18/05/2017 09:41:58---Horixe esan nahi dut. Ez zaiela izena a"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#424282">"LARRINAGA
LARRAZABAL, ASIER" ---18/05/2017 09:41:58---Horixe esan nahi dut. Ez zaiela izena aldatu behar, alegia. Eta ez da, ezergatik ere, nahastea eragi</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F">Nork:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">"LARRINAGA LARRAZABAL, ASIER" <<a href="mailto:larrinaga_asier@eitb.eus">larrinaga_asier@eitb.eus</a>></span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F">Nori:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">'Koldo Biguri' <<a href="mailto:kbiguri@yahoo.es">kbiguri@yahoo.es</a>>, 'ItzuL' <<a href="mailto:itzul@postaria.com">itzul@postaria.com</a>></span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F">Data:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">18/05/2017 09:41</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#5F5F5F">Gaia:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Re: [itzul] Hermanitas de los pobres</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Horixe esan nahi dut. Ez zaiela izena aldatu behar, alegia. Eta ez da, ezergatik ere, nahastea eragin behar, "Kartitateko Ahizpak" beste batzuk dira eta.</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hortik aurrera, -txoak / txikiak edo behartsu / txiro edo ahizpa / senide edo beste egiten den, doktoreak baditu Eliza Ama Santuak.</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Asier Larrinaga Larrazabal</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Koldo Biguri , ItzuL-en bidez [<a href="mailto:itzul@postaria.com">mailto:itzul@postaria.com</a>]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> osteguna, 18 de maiatza de 2017 09:33<b><br>
To:</b> ItzuL<b><br>
Cc:</b> Koldo Biguri<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [itzul] Hermanitas de los pobres</span><br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Petites Sœurs des pauvres</span><br>
<span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Germanetes dels Pobres</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Little Sisters of the Poor</span> <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Kongregation der Kleinen Schwestern der Armen</span><br>
<span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Piccole sorelle dei poveri</span><br>
<span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Kleine Zusters van de Armen</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Eta euskaraz izena aldatu behar al zaie? Haien baimenarekin?</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Koldo Biguri</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">De:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> "LARRINAGA LARRAZABAL, ASIER" <<a href="mailto:larrinaga_asier@eitb.eus">larrinaga_asier@eitb.eus</a>><b><br>
Para:</b> 'ItzuL' <<a href="mailto:itzul@postaria.com">itzul@postaria.com</a>> <b>
<br>
Enviado:</b> Jueves 18 de Mayo de 2017 9:26<b><br>
Asunto:</b> Re: [itzul] Hermanitas de los pobres</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Beharbada, egoki litzateke berriro kontsultatzea zein kongregazio den "Hermanitas de los Pobres", zein den "Hermanas de la Caridad", eta beste hizkuntza batzuetan zelan esaten zaion bakoitzari.</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Asier Larrinaga Larrazabal</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:sayago.ja@aju.ej-gv.es">sayago.ja@aju.ej-gv.es</a> [<a href="mailto:sayago.ja@aju.ej-gv.es">mailto:sayago.ja@aju.ej-gv.es</a>]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> osteguna, 18 de maiatza de 2017 07:41<b><br>
To:</b> <a href="mailto:itzul@postaria.com">itzul@postaria.com</a><b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [itzul] Hermanitas de los pobres</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Mila esker berriz ere. Eta euskararako, zein genero berdintasunerako ere, zuzenagoa begitantzen zait “ahizpatxoak” baino ahizpak jartzea. Zer esanik ez “karitatea” jartzea ere “behartsuak “ jartzea baino estigma
gutxiago dakarrela iruditzen zait. Orain, beraiek erabakiko dute.</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Ondo izan</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">De:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> Dionisio Amundarain Sarasola [<a href="mailto:dioni@facilnet.es">mailto:dioni@facilnet.es</a>]
<b><br>
Enviado el:</b> martes, 16 de mayo de 2017 16:24<b><br>
Para:</b> 'ItzuL'<b><br>
Asunto:</b> Re: [itzul] Hermanitas de los pobres</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Ni neuk Karitateko Ahizpak esango nuke; Elizako anai-arrebak esaten dugu, eta ez Elizaren anai-arrebak. Hermanitas de los pobres esateko, berriz, “Pobreentzako Ahizpak” (ahizpa-taldetzat harturik) esan ezean, aski
zail dakusat irtenbidea: “Pobreen Ahizpak” ez litzateke zuzena izango; “Pobreen Ahizpa-arrebak” ez litzateke egokia izango; “Pobreen Haurrideak” zuzena izango litzateke, baina… ulergaitza (batez ere “ahizpa” horientzat”, esango nuke). DIONISIO AMUNDARAIN</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">De:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> Ales Bengoetxea [</span><a href="mailto:Ales_Bengoetxea@donostia.eus" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">mailto:Ales_Bengoetxea@donostia.eus</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">]
<b><br>
Enviado el:</b> martes, 16 de mayo de 2017 15:33<b><br>
Para:</b> ItzuL<b><br>
Asunto:</b> Re: [itzul] Hermanitas de los pobres</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Kasualitatez gertatzen da hala. Gaia "Karitatearen Ahizpak" izan balitz, seguru ez zenuen zalantzarik egingo. Baina galdera polita da egiten duzuna.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="102" height="74" id="_x0000_i1029" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D2CFC2.B295C310" alt="Euskara Zerbitzua - Euskararen Hiria"><o:p></o:p></p>
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Ales Bengoetxea Telletxea<br>
Euskara Zerbitzua - Hizkuntza normalizatzailea<br>
Tel: 943 483759<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.donostiaeuskaraz.eus/" target="_blank">www.donostiaeuskaraz.eus</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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</span><img border="0" width="16" height="16" id="_x0000_i1030" src="cid:image002.gif@01D2CFC2.B295C310" alt="Inactivo - Ocultar detalles para ---16/05/2017 13:55:53---Eskerrik asko erantzunengatik. Halere, zalantza batekin jarraitzen du"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">---16/05/2017
13:55:53---Eskerrik asko erantzunengatik. Halere, zalantza batekin jarraitzen dut. Euskaltzaindiaren hiztegiare<br>
<br>
Nork: <</span><a href="mailto:sayago.ja@aju.ej-gv.es" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">sayago.ja@aju.ej-gv.es</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">><br>
Nori: <</span><a href="mailto:gegia@gipuzkoa.eus" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">gegia@gipuzkoa.eus</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">>, <</span><a href="mailto:itzul@postaria.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">itzul@postaria.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">><br>
Data: 16/05/2017 13:55<br>
Gaia: Re: [itzul] Hermanitas de los pobres</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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Eskerrik asko erantzunengatik.<br>
<br>
Halere, zalantza batekin jarraitzen dut. Euskaltzaindiaren hiztegiaren arabera, “ahizpa” hitza onartu egiten da kongregazio erlijiosoentzat. Hortaz, nahiz eta lotura izan behartsuekin, eta behartsuak, emeak eta (batez ere) gizonak izan, baliteke “ahizpen” izendapena,
kongregaziokoei erreferitzeagatik mantentzea?<br>
<br>
Bestela, aspaldi konpondu bazen kontua, eman dizkidazuen onargarriak iruditzen zaizkit.<br>
<br>
Gero arte<br>
<br>
<br>
Jon<br>
<b><br>
De:</b> Gotzon Egia [</span><a href="mailto:gegia@gipuzkoa.eus" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">mailto:gegia@gipuzkoa.eus</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">]
<b><br>
Enviado el:</b> martes, 16 de mayo de 2017 13:48<b><br>
Para:</b> ItzuL; Jon Andoni Sayago Torres<b><br>
Asunto:</b> Re: [itzul] Hermanitas de los pobres<span style="color:#333333"><br>
<br>
</span> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">“Hermanitas de los pobres” Ba al dauka euskal ordain bat? Eta batez ere: ekidin daiteke “hermanitas”-en txikigarri hori?</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"><br>
Aspaldi, oso aspaldi, 2001ean azaldu zen galdera hau ItzuLen:</span><u><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue"><br>
BLOCKEDgit[.]net/ml/culture[.]language[.]basque[.]itzul/2001-05/msg00162[.]htmlBLOCKED</span></u><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">Euskalterm:<b><br>
hermanitas de los pobres </b><br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#333333">- Erlijioa - </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#333333">eu </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#333333">behartsuen haurridetxoak </span>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#333333">behartsuen senidetxoak </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#333333">es </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.euskara.euskadi.eus/q91EusTermWar/kontsultaJSP/q91aBilaketaAction.do?ekin=FITXATIK&galderakoHizkuntza=ES&galdera=hermanitas%20de%20los%20pobres&terminoTermkod=1138772&fitxatik=bai" target="_blank">hermanitas de los pobres
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.euskara.euskadi.eus/q91EusTermWar/kontsultaJSP/q91aBilaketaAction.do?ekin=FITXATIK&galderakoHizkuntza=FR&galdera=petites%20soeurs%20des%20pauvres&terminoTermkod=1138773&fitxatik=bai" target="_blank">petites soeurs des
pauvres </a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#333333">[Hiztegi terminologikoa] [1991] </span>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"> <br>
-- </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
Gotzon Egia<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u></span><a href="mailto:gegia@gipuzkoa.eus" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">gegia@gipuzkoa.eus</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
43º 19' 15" N 1º 58' 57.5" W</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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Hemendik aurrera nire posta elektronikoak .eus domeinua izango du. Hori dela eta, nire posta elektroniko berria zure kontaktuetan gordetzea gomendatzen dizut. Oraingoz, bi domeinuak indarrean mantenduko dira.<br>
<br>
<br>
A partir de ahora mi correo electrónico tendrá el dominio .eus y en consecuencia, le recomiendo que guarde mi nueva dirección electrónica en sus contactos. De momento convivirán los dos dominios.<br>
<br>
<br>
Gipuzkoan<br>
<br>
<br>
euskaraz bizi eta lan egiten dugu</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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